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Are there any cheap (less that £150) looping devices that will process more than one loop?
I want to get set up but it seems pointless unless I can have more than one loop playing.
I'm looking at Boss RC-20XL and Akai E2 headrush as possibilities, but I'm not sure they are what I'm after.
At moment I have two multieffects with awesome delays, however they still decay.
Basically I need something to replace these, a delay beyond 10 secs is beyond my needs.
However to have two loops of different lengths playing while I carry on over the top is essential.
How much would I have to pay to do this?
Incidently I don't want software, it has to be pedal based really.
I really hope that this is possible.
I want to get set up but it seems pointless unless I can have more than one loop playing.
I'm looking at Boss RC-20XL and Akai E2 headrush as possibilities, but I'm not sure they are what I'm after.
At moment I have two multieffects with awesome delays, however they still decay.
Basically I need something to replace these, a delay beyond 10 secs is beyond my needs.
However to have two loops of different lengths playing while I carry on over the top is essential.
How much would I have to pay to do this?
Incidently I don't want software, it has to be pedal based really.
I really hope that this is possible.
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Re: help on buying a looping device
Mon, October 8, 2007 - 10:19 AMTo have two loops of different lengths may require two separate pedals, if you don't want to go the software route, but the RC-20XL looks like it might suit your needs.
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Re: help on buying a looping device
Tue, October 9, 2007 - 1:13 AMWell, that's not much cash available :-(
What do you actualy need?
Just a delay with option of no decay?,
...in which case check out the Behringer Virtualizer, £60 or so with a dual 5s delay that
can be made not to decay.
The RC-20XL will only give you one loop at a time, and you won't
ever be able to make that loop decay (if you need that).
If you don't want the loop storage of the RC-20XL then
maybe the headrush has some features you'll find more useful.
...but hard to say not knowing the results you wish to achieve in detail. -
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Re: help on buying a looping device
Tue, October 9, 2007 - 11:13 AMBUMMER!!!!!
I wrote a long and considered reply to this email and , as has happened several times in recent months,
I wake up the next day and find that it disappeared in the ether.
Does anyone else experience this with Tribe.net?
It's really vexing to me. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr! -
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Re: help on buying a looping device
Wed, October 10, 2007 - 2:56 AMyou wanna give a short one?
Also looking around I don't think there is anything remotely inexpensive that will give me two loops.
However I assume the Boss is the best buy out there for just the one, yes? -
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Re: help on buying a looping device
Wed, October 10, 2007 - 3:36 AMyou can buy the BOSS RC-2 for $179 USD (musiciansfriend.com)
That's the very cheapest one you can purchase.
I love the Line 6 DL-4 which is more expensive at $250 (same source)
because it allows your loops to slowly decay over time (if left in overdub mode with no input),
can go backwards or forwards, 1/2 speed or double speed
AND allows you to use a separate plain vanilla digital delay on any layer of the loop.
Additionally, it has very hip digital models of a lot of the pre-digital delay pedals and tape delays from
musical history if you choose not to use it as a looper.
It only has 14 seconds of full bandwidth (with two inputs and two outputs that are NOT stereo)
and 28 seconds of half bandwidth (half time) and no abliity to store loops.
Frankly, it's time limitation never bothers me because I tend to use it as a rhythmic bed (although pad loops
are pretty long at 14 seconds) and for some reason , despite being an endorsee of all of the most expensive
loopers on the market, I never seem to record my loops or save them.
I love it and sometimes use three in a row on a pedal board.
I'd hate having only an RC-2...........especially without any feedback and no double/half/forward reverse abilities.
That's my 2 /2 cents.
Andy, what do you think? -
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Re: help on buying a looping device
Wed, October 10, 2007 - 11:57 AMWell, what I think is that it's not really possible to advise without knowing what rthe wants to achieve.
so..
Do you need to tap in the delay time (ie to make accurate loops of say, a riff)?
Your current set up is a couple of delays, so is what you want to do just to modify
that setup so that you can make loops that won't decay?
You want reverse?
any other clues ;-)
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Re: help on buying a looping device
Wed, October 10, 2007 - 5:34 PMIdeally a few more effects would be cool, but I have hardware to cover pretty much all I would need practically.
Basically my project is that of a noise based, completely effects saturated, sound-scapy sort of thing. produced live with the source signal being, twin guitars, bass and keys (sometimes vocals). The aim is always to keep it poly-rhythmic which is achieved presently by offsetting the ping-pong and delay effects of various instruments. We want to start looping since this would give us greater flexibility, in creating noise and perhaps overlaying comparatively clean melodic features.
However with one loop, we are automatically back to a sound with an obvious (in the loosest sense) time signature. Offsetting two loops of different lengths would give us what we want.
So the required spec is something like:
Needed; the ability to run two loops of different lengths, overdubbing on at least one, a true loop with non-decay, ability to loop 5-8 seconds (more is good but not nec) truly without decay.
Not needed (although obviously I can put up with them being there); a tap function, reverse or other speed options, an option to decay, to save/recall loops, ... and I think that that is comprehensive.
That it doesn't decay necessarily is very important.
The price which I suggest is ideal, I could spend more.
That more than one device might be required is not a problem, however two units of any quality start to become quite pricy indeed. -
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Re: help on buying a looping device
Thu, October 11, 2007 - 12:11 AMyour absolute cheapest solution for doing what you just specifically described is
to purchase two BOSS RC-2.
This will cost you in the order of $360-$400 depending on where you buy them.
There is no cheaper solution than this unless you already have a host
computer that can run Windows on it in a laptop with a breakout box that has
both multiple ins and outs (cheapest ones run around $200) and then
you can run multiple instances of Mobius which is a very sophisticated
software clone of the Gibson Echoplex EDP (which Andy Butler has worked on
extensively in this tribe).
I do a lot of rhythm based noise music myself and the EDP is awesome for this purpose because of
it's ability to slice and dice and extend and contract looping lengths.............create loops that fade out at
different rates, synchronize loops.
In hardware, this is a pricey solution (but an elegant one) but it will not run two loops simulataneously.
The only hardware looper I know that will do that it the Looperlative which is even more expensive (and equally elegant)
Two BOSS RC-2s or a couple of older used digital delays that have the ability to create 'infinite delay'. Most of these, unfortunately,
have very little 'loop' time but interesting things can occur because of them.
Good luck................where is your music posted?
I"m actually doing an all acoustic show (and non-looping) with Henry Kaiser tomorrow night at the
Luggage Store Experimental Series in San Francisco.
I'm fascinated by acoustic noise lately so I'm going to be taking up a bunch of magnets and thin vibrating plexiglass and metal
rods that buzz and whirr when set into vibration.
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Re: help on buying a looping device
Thu, October 11, 2007 - 12:41 AMhi Guys,
Price-wise, thing are different in the UK to the US
RC-20XL is available for £145, making the thr RC-2 at around £130 not worth it.
Akai Headrush is available at £95, and also has a multi-tap delay thing
which could be very interesting for noise textures.
ok, let's talk polyrhythm. If we're talking "2 loops, with unrelated lengths" then it's easy, any
2 loop devices will do it.
If we want the loop times of the 2 devices to be polyrhythmically related then things are harder,
the loops will need to be syncronised in some way. Well let's not worry about that unless rthe
actually wants it (I'm guessing no ;-)
If I was going to get that sort of effect with the 2 loops myself, I'd just use the Behringer Virtualizer to
provide loops of 5s and 4s (or whatever, but 5 is max) and then use a mixer to send my signal
to those 2 idependant loops as required. (cost £65 or so, so would leave enough cash for a mixer if needed)
otherwise, 2 Headrushes at a total of £190 looks good (still need some way to route the signal)
hope that helps
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Re: help on buying a looping device
Thu, October 11, 2007 - 1:00 AMHey Andy, I don't know much about the Virtualizer by Behringer.
Would you explain what it does for me (and us). -
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Re: help on buying a looping device
Thu, October 11, 2007 - 4:06 AMThe Virtualizer is just a cheap multi-FX.
Good quality though, especially if you use the balanced in/outs.
It has a whole load of different fx, some good, some poor, some
usuable in unexpected ways.
e.g. The Vocoder is very poor, but when you use the built in noise source it's
possible to program some nice faux drum machine sounds for making guitar percussion.
It has a stereo 5s delay, where you can use the 2 channels completely seperately.
Feedback of 100% is possible, and this will produce a loop that doesn't degrade ( well, didn't try leaving it
on all night ;-)
A nice trick is to program delays of 4 and 5 seconds, and play into it.
Everything you play will be split side to side, but after 20s, hey the 2 sides coincide
again and you get a solid image.
For the old ambient 5s loop stuff, it can work a treat, in stereo.
Then it's possible to change presets as you play, and as long as each preset is based
on that stereo delay the sound will keep circulating through the different delay times.
Kind of glitchy, but rhythmically very interesting, especially if you're careful with setting the right delay times.
Of course, you can mess up the loop with glitchyness then go back to a 5s loop of glitchy fun.
I used to have it in my rig briefly, for faux drum machine and sub octave fx.
May put it back there, so I can use the edp for rhythmic, and float some
washes over the top of that on the Virtualizer 5s delay.
There's also some sort of a sampler, 5s of stereo.
It's not that good, but can be encouraged to do some strange things,
as it's possible for it to record and playback simultaneously.
It always records into a 5s buffer, and will keep overwriting if you leave record on.
While that's happening you can play back any selected part of that 5 seconds in a loop
with reverse and/or speed change.
again, it's glitchy fun, and you can swap between different presets.
Stephen Scott uses some of this sort of stuff, I think.
The modulation effects can be tweaked to some nice extreme sounds.
...and everthing is midi controllable.
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Re: help on buying a looping device
Fri, October 12, 2007 - 4:51 AMdarn , this sounds great.
another damned inexpensive but very creative effects box that I have to buy some day.
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Re: help on buying a looping device
Sun, October 21, 2007 - 6:19 AMi think you should save up for something like a Electro Harmonix 2880 because if you get one cheaper pedal that doesn't really do what you want you are just going to end up getting a second one for a total price that of more then this type of single unit that does much more then the two pedals.
www.youtube.com/watch
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Re: help on buying a looping device
Tue, November 13, 2007 - 11:33 AMJust to mention it, most software looping programs can be controlled by a midi foot pedal (which are really cheap devices).
Ambiloop, for one, is free and has features far beyond those of low and mid priced looping pedals.
Nearly every feature of Ambiloop is easily controlled by a midi foot pedal or any other source of midi output.
For example, I have a demo of Ambiloop controlled by a Boss drum machine sending midi commands:
www.youtube.com/watch
There are also other freeware (and cheapware) software solutions for live looping out there which allow midi control.
The light version of Ableton live and mobius to name a couple.
It might be worth experimenting with a couple of those before spending a bundle on a pedal.
